Friday, February 18, 2011

Quote of the day - Infighting

"I’d rather have these OC activists restricted than me. They seem to want to push and push until something gives, so I’d much rather they lose their ability to scare disinterested parties than I lose my ability to defend myself and my loved ones. "

- Mike - Commenting at Sebastians

I'm sorry, but it's comments like this from pro-gun folks really irk me. I have no problem with us disagreeing civilly on tactics and hearts & minds issues. What I do have a problem with is people who want to see the rights of fellow pro-gunners restricted. I may disagree with the manner in which you exercise your rights from time to time, but you won't see me here blogging about how I want your rights restricted because the exercise of said rights has the potential to negatively impact my rights.

Go ahead and throw the OC crowd under the bus and see what happens. I suspect you'll find that they are a key ally. We are all on the same side here folks. The last thing we need are "pro-gun" folks calling for restrictions on the rights of other gunnies simply because they disagree with the way in which some choose to legally exercise their rights.

Ben Franklin once said,

"We must all hang together or most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.”

We may have differences but that does not mean we shouldn't be defending the rights of ALL gun owners. I'll defend the free speech rights of Nazi's, KKK members and the jerks at Westboro Baptist Church, * why would I not also defend the rights of OC'ers with whom I ultimately have only minor disagreement?

*for the record I am not in any way saying the actions of MOC were comparable to Nazi's. KKK members or the Westboro Baptist Church. Just thought I'd clarify that.

Also, go read Robb's OC post. Bravo!


Bob S. said...

We may have differences but that does not mean we shouldn't be defending the rights of ALL gun owners.

Here, Here!

That is what I've been saying all along.

Mike W. said...

Bob - I think much of this was a simple case of talking past eachother.

Some folks got the impression that I didn't think these OC'ers should be able to carry in the library, or carry long guns or etc. etc. and that wasn't it at all.

There's nothing wrong with my stating "hey, IMO that's probably not the best way to go about things."

It's perfectly possible to have that opinion without also wanting to restrict the lawful actions of others (I'm no liberal afterall)

I think that was getting lost in all the Brouhaha.

Bob S. said...


I really tried to make sure I wasn't talking past each other.

One of the things I tried to point out is that social prohibitions (Gunnies don't carry shotguns -- ANYWHERE) can be stronger and harder to change than the law.

And I think that was what too many people against the MOC was forgetting.

Mike W. said...

I absolutely agree there. And I didn't mean you and I in particular, I mean in general in this discussion.

Generally the law changes, then the social stigma. Might be a good idea to get folks used to seeing people carry pistols before we jump right into OC'ing Shotguns, carbines etc. in non-rural settings. In my experience the average non-gunnie sees one of my Sigs as less "scary" than my AR-15. It's not logical, but it is what it is.

I'll come right out and say, I have never seen a civilian OC'ing an uncased long gun and I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen an LEO carrying one.

Bob S. said...


I agree that many people see a distinction between handguns and long guns.

What I don't agree with is the pro-rights community making the anti-rights arguments.

"He shouldn't carry a ***** Firearm there".

Now sub in pistol style or long gun there and who was making the argument?

I'll disagree with you about the progression. MADD made this clear to me decades ago.

The laws were on the books but weren't enforced -- why?

The social stigma wasn't there. They changed the stigma, made it unacceptable socially to drink and drive -- then prosecutors started enforcing the laws, then legislators increased the consequences.

But the change happened in the public perception first.

This where I'm seeing the gunny community over reacting -- I'm not seeing wide spread concern or even attention in the non-gunny community.

We are castigating the advocates for things that haven't even happened or might not happen.

JimB said...

Bottom line... If you're going to OC don't be an a$$hole. If you insist on scaring people you will find laws being passed that prohibit what you are doing. Maybe you can get those laws overturned eventually. All you need is time and money. In the mean time you may wind up a "prohibited person" and loose access to all firearms.