Via JR.
I'm glad to see someone had the sense to allow this. I'm not the least bit surprised that such common-sense comes from the great state of Texas. If there's one thing worth protecting it's our children, right? We find it acceptable to carry firearms to protect banks & large amounts of money. If someone elses money's worth protecting with a firearm the children in our nations schools certainly are.
Update - Hammer has some good commentary on this issue.
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23 comments:
Yeah, I want untrained people carrying firearms in my son's school. And if a crisis occurs, I surely want people untrained in hostage or crisis management to be armed. Give me a break.
Nemski - These people have all received the training needed to obtain a CCW permit in the State of Texas. They are all authorized by the state to carry pretty much everywhere.
All that's happened here is the School District has changed its policy to allow those teachers with permits to carry at work. They already carry everywhere else in the state without the issues (based on your irrational, unfounded fears) that you state in your comment.
Your comment is the typical fearmongering "blood in the streets" hysteria that is out of touch with the facts and reality of CCW over the last 20+ years.
Yeah, I want untrained people carrying firearms in my son's school.
Ah, yes, the "Only Ones" mentality that is sadly all too prevalent among the population. There's just one thing -- it doesn't necessarily have to work out like gun-grabbing enuretics like to think it does.
The funny thing is I know plenty of Delaware cops. My brother is training for SWAT and goes to the range often, on his own time, with his personally owned weapons. He's the exception not the rule.
Many cops only shoot when they have to qualify, which is a couple times a year at most.
Breda shoots better with the .45 1911 than some of the cops I've seen at the range do when shooting lesser calibers.
Nemski - Do a search for Clayton Cramer's Civilian Self-Defense Blog.
These people have all received the training needed to obtain a CCW permit in the State of Texas. They are all authorized by the state to carry pretty much everywhere.
Help me out here. I've checked out Texas' CCW application and I don't see anything about specialized training.
And if a crisis occurs, I surely want people untrained in hostage or crisis management to be armed.
How is this fear-mongering. Are you saying all people who carry concealed weapons are trained in hostage crisis management?
What I'm saying Nemski is that these folks already carry legally everywhere else in the state without incident. They carry, they go about their daily lives, and if god forbid they need to use their weapon they do so responsibly and effectively.
Where are the daily incidences of CCW holders getting into wild shootouts, killing innocent bystanders etc. etc.? Again, your fears are irrational. They are out of touch with the reality of CCW in this country.
You think cops are trained in hostage negotiation? No, they're not. And what the hell is "crisis management" Someone walks into a classroom and starts firing Cho-style. You shoot the guy who's randomly killing people, crisis stopped.
If you're going to discuss your irrational fears about CCW holders I expect to see something substantive that proves they are inadequately trained and a danger to others. The simple fact of the matter is that you're wrong, your fears are unsubstantiated. Several decades of CCW has shown that those with permits are the last people you need to be worrying about.
Having fears is fine, but it's best if you base them on reality.
BTW Nemski - I received training on the appropriate use of lethal force in my Utah CCW class and I demonstrated that I could safely and responsibly handle a firearm.
Okay, what I've learned so far is this.
1. In Texas, to get a CCW permit, one does not need specialized training. You said they did and they don't.
2. You deem the fact that I do not want the possibility of untrained people carrying guns in my son's school is "irrational". Irrational would be ignoring these situations:
http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/research/?page=incident&menu=gvr
3. No Hostage Training? What is crisis management? Take a look at the following link for police training.
http://www.patc.com/
Rather than anecdotal evidence from The Brady Campaign of all places (real unbiased Nemski...) Lets look at actual revocations for firearm-related offenses among FL CCW holders.
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html
Looks like only 165 licenses were revoked for firearms related offenses.
In Texas - CCW Conviction rates - can't be much lower
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm
Total Convictions in Texas - 61,539
Convictions of CHL Holders - 140
CHL Holder Percentage of Total Convictions - 0.2275%
So, does this mean you agree with points 1 (no CCW training) and 3 (police training)?
As far as point 2, you said my fear was "irrational," and I have come up with some biased evidence that supports what I feel is the insanity of carrying concealed weapons in a school. Mike, there is nothing "irrational" about how I want to protect my child.
If your fear is at odds with the reality and facts of the issue (which it is) then yes, your fear is 100% irrational.
May I ask how you think making schools "gun free zones" protect your child and other child?
Keep in mind that those "gun free zones" are only "gun free" until a criminal who wishes to harm your child walks in and ignores the sign declaring the school "gun free." They may as well put a sign up saying "No LEGAL guns allowed" since that's the effect of such "gun free zones"
Also remember. He's ignored the sign, walked in and started killing people. There's no one inside the school to stop him because the teacher with a CCW left her gun at home. Why did she do that? Because the criminals ignore the "gun-free" signs and the law abiding (who you for some reason fear) obey the signs.
So, Nemski, why don't you advocate for training of the teachers instead of just disarming them completely? That seems to me to be taking the easy way out.
As my factual evidence shows CCW holders are doing just fine with the training (or lack thereof) they already have.
There's no evidence of any "problem" therefore there's no need for "specialized training" or any other restrictions.
Show me real evidence that my facts are wrong and law-abiding CCW holders really do need more training and/or restrictions. Since you can't I stand by my assertion that your concerns/irrational fears, while genuine, are completely irrelevant to this debate.
Nemski - You did absolutely NO research did you? As I thought, TX requires training, NRA Basic Pistol test, and live-fire range qualification to get a permit, just like my UT permit required.
"Obtaining a permit to carry concealed in the State of Texas requires completion of the course, qualifying with a handgun at the range, and passing a 50 question test. The applicant then applies and pays a fee to the State which completes a background check and completes the issuance of the license. "
http://chl-texas.com/
Nemski - Don't even bother debating with me if you're not going to back things up with facts.
Help me out here. I've checked out Texas' CCW application and I don't see anything about specialized training.
As I posted earlier.
Nemski - Don't even bother debating with me if you're not going to back things up with facts.
Thanks for being civil about it.
Nothing uncivil about it Nemski- I simply ask that you back up what you say with facts. Re-stating what you've already said doesn't make it any less incorrect.
Directly from Texas DPS FAQ for CCW's.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us
/administration/crime_records
/chl/faq.htm
"Q: I've heard that I will have to take a special class to get a license. Is this true?
A: Yes. You must take a 10- to 15-hour class taught by a DPS-certified instructor. The notification of completion form (TR 100) you receive from the instructor must be sent to the DPS with your other application materials."
If you're wondering what this training class entails...
http://www.statewidetraining
academy.com/ConcealedHandgun.html
The training MUST cover everything required under state law INCLUDING state deadly force laws and live-fire proficiency testing on the range.
*tap-tap-tap* This thing on? Hey! What about advocating training for the teachers as opposed to carping from the sidelines about their supposed lack of it? Hello?!?!?!?! And what about the Israeli school counselors and the example they set?????
Oh, and for the record, Mike, that was not aimed at you.
You'd better not aim anything at me Pistolero, or there will be "blood in the streets" from our gun battle :)
*snerk* Now THAT was good. ;-)
Nemski - Are you from San Fran by any chance?
"and I have come up with some biased evidence that supports what I feel is the insanity of carrying concealed weapons in a school."
I'll take reality and actual facts over feelings and biased "facts" any day.
In response to the Murder on 300 South Van Buren Street The police braged that they confiscated 714 guns in Wilmington.
.
When asked if there was a diagnosis performed on the source of the guns. He stated that the guns were sent to ATF, but no one has requested any synopsis on any statistics gathered, or study done.
When people presume to make suggestions for gun controls, but fail to take into account, actually trying to study the situation, we have insanity.
714 guns confiscated in Wilmington, a city with 70,000 people, is 1 gun per 100 people. Presumably these guns were used in crimes, or possessed by persons prohibited. And therefore rightfully confiscated. [ I hope.]
BUT to do NO STUDY to determine the source of the weapons? Such a failure to study the guns and the data they provide, just indicates the politics of the situation is driven by opinion and bias. That is why I am against those who expound on GUN CONTROL, it is mostly uninformed opinion and emotions.
Nemski - No comments now that you've been proven thoroughly wrong?
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